GPS - Revision history

FreeTim: status-updated the SH known issue, added summary of Location Services, added small Mojo code sample, cleaned up my own grammar, corrected the flow of the contents table

2009-12-04T10:57:31Z

status-updated the SH known issue, added summary of Location Services, added small Mojo code sample, cleaned up my own grammar, corrected the flow of the contents table

Balrog-kun: /* Description */ Typos

2009-11-10T14:22:00Z

Description: Typos

Balrog-kun: Protocol - new section

2009-11-10T14:18:20Z

Protocol - new section

Balrog-kun: /* Known Issues */ GPRS costs

2009-11-10T14:09:00Z

Known Issues: GPRS costs

FreeTim: /* Location of Chip */ Added detail about the digital baseband controller too

2009-10-06T23:10:34Z

Location of Chip: Added detail about the digital baseband controller too

FreeTim: Updating the Southern Hemisphere known issue with the GPS - link.

2009-10-06T22:31:53Z

Updating the Southern Hemisphere known issue with the GPS - link.

FreeTim: Adding Battery Drain test results to the page

2009-10-06T22:06:16Z

Adding Battery Drain test results to the page

FreeTim: /* Mojo */ Quick summary of the GPS mojo features

2009-10-06T17:56:52Z

Mojo: Quick summary of the GPS mojo features

FreeTim: Removed documents from Google and direct quotes to clean it up.

2009-10-06T17:48:55Z

Removed documents from Google and direct quotes to clean it up.

FreeTim: Minor research results update

2009-10-06T17:32:00Z

Minor research results update

@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
 Software found elsewhere (location services - see SDK.)
-====Description====
+==Description==
 The Palm Pre has a built-in hardware GPS, it's integrated in the radio receiver chip.
 Internet has some misleading information out there because the initial tear-downs didn't spot a separate GPS chip, so reviewers thought the Palm Pre didn't have a GPS and thus must rely on cell phone tower location like so : ''The Pre does use the assisted GPS capabilities of the Qualcomm baseband. That means the phone will not be able to get a location fix when it is not connected to the cellular network.''
-This isn't entirely accurate - the Palm Pre '''does indeed have integrated GPS''' hardware, it's part of the RF reciever chip, and it uses this hardware GPS if it's turned on (enabled.)
+====Usage Summary====
 *If the GPS is on, '''GPS hardware''' will be used with location determined by satellites.
-*If the GPS is turned off in Location Services, the Palm Pre will fall back on cell tower location.
+*If the GPS is turned off in Location Services, the Palm Pre will fall back on cell tower location to locate.
-==Location of Chip==
+The GPS receiver hardware chip is physically located on the Comm board, right hand side, it's integrated as part of the RF (radio frequency) receiver chip RFR6500 that is part of the  [http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTexas_Instruments_OMAP&ei=00LLSq6IE8iwtgf74KXrAQ&rct=j&q=arm+texas+instruments+omap+3+chipset+palm+pre&usg=AFQjCNEmNf0DMuYepJcYOS4WiM4dr77fYw&sig2=Drg2ly2tTdnTihaq_XFYrw OMAP3 chipset (PDF file),]
-The GPS hardware is physically located on the Comm board, right hand side, as part of the RF (radio frequency) receiver chip RFR6500 that is part of the  [http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTexas_Instruments_OMAP&ei=00LLSq6IE8iwtgf74KXrAQ&rct=j&q=arm+texas+instruments+omap+3+chipset+palm+pre&usg=AFQjCNEmNf0DMuYepJcYOS4WiM4dr77fYw&sig2=Drg2ly2tTdnTihaq_XFYrw OMAP3 chipset (PDF file),]
+The Palm Pre's main communication chipsets include the RFR6500 receiver and RFT6150 transmitter.  The GPS isn't part of the MSM6801 controller but rather it's part of the Qualcomm RFR6500 Receiver on the Palm Pre, or since one is a processing controller and the other is the radio receiver chip, the GPS as a whole may be thought of as a combination of these two hardware chips (radio receiver, and processor), which is why some flow diagrams for logic may show the GPS in the MSM6801 (processor) logic block.
-According to [http://www.pcb007.com/pages/zone.cgi?artcatid=&a=50798&artid=50798&pg=2 magazine PCB007], the Pre's main comm chipsets include the RFR6500 receiver and RFT6150 transmitter.  Is it possible, the GPS isn't part of the MSM6801 but rather it's part of the Qualcomm RFR6500 Receiver, also on the Palm Pre?
+The radio receiver chip, a Qualcomm RFR6500, is a Radio Frequency Support chip and supports both GPS receiving and receiving of the voice part of cellular.  This radio receiver chip needs some digital controller for the processing and control, this is done via the Baseband Processor which is the Qualcomm MSM6801A chip.
-Phone wreck shows the RFR6500 too, in the teardown.
+Software and the MSM6801A controller won't allow the RFR6500 GPS reception to function without the cell modem first being registered - see errata below.
-This Qualcomm RFR6500 supports both GPS receiving and receiving of the voice part of cellular.  This GPS chip will also likely need some digital controller - therefore my conclusion that the Palm Pre's GPS receiver is inside the second Radio Frequency support chip the Qualcomm RFR6500 receiver is the one, and it's likely the processing and control for that GPS may be part of the Baseband processor (Qualcomm MSM6801A.)
+PhoneWreck.com shows the RFR6500 reciever too, in the teardown.
 There is an [http://www.semiconductor.com/resources/reports_database/view_report.asp?pid=4176 engineering report here.]
-(above, engineering report article)
+The engineering report article is where you'll find that Qualcomm’s RFR6500 is a receiver that can "support '''both GPS and '''CDMA2000 cell voice reception."
 *Rapid Repair shows the [http://www.rapidrepair.com/guides/Palm-Pre/palm-pre-dissasembly-repair-guide.html comm board here.] (photo.)
@@ Line 48: / Line 41: @@
 * There are Mojo methods detailed in the SDK under Location Services (and so, no need to also detail them here.)  Overview: Some of the Mojo functions allow to get current location, to subscribe to services (thus continually updating coordinates) and also reverse address resolution - put in an address and return the longitude/ latitude.
 * See the SDK for the current WebOS version which describes the Javascript use of Location services.
@@ Line 53: / Line 63: @@
 ===Southern Hemisphere===
-Apparently the software on the Pre may not be converting lon/lat [http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/webos-internals/palm-pre-gps-error.html for the Southern Hemisphere correctly.] If patch becomes available, I'll update here.
+Mojo software on the Pre may not be converting lon/lat [http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/webos-internals/palm-pre-gps-error.html for the Southern Hemisphere correctly.]
@@ Line 85: / Line 97: @@
 Comment: This was not moving, But, when walking /riding does it use up any more current? Assuming then it might be constantly losing / aquiring satellite signal? Further tests will be needed to determine if this is true.
-''This page contributed by FreeTim''
+''This page contributed by FreeTim''<BR>
-Last update : [[User:FreeTim|FreeTim]] 22:31, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
+Last update : [[User:FreeTim|FreeTim]] 10:57, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
-====Potential Costs====
+==Potential Costs==
 The Palm Pre driver uses services such a RX Network "GPS on extra" to improve the accuracy, meaning that it downloads files over the GPRS connection if available.  Depending on your service providers's charging plan this may mean additional costs on your bill when Location services is enabled.  It is not yet known how much data needs to be downloaded or how often.
 ==Low-level Access==
-The GPS chip is part of the baseband GSM module and it seems it can not or is not enabled until the modem is registered to a network.  Therefore the communication with the GPS chip goes over the same port and uses the same protocol as GSM, the messages relating to both services are interleaving in the communication stream.  The attempt to document this protocol is coordinated at the [[Research Pre GSM Modem Protocol]] page.
+The GPS function it seems it can not or is not enabled until the modem is registered to a network.  Therefore the communication with the GPS chip goes over the same port and uses the same protocol as GSM, the messages relating to both services are interleaving in the communication stream.  The attempt to document this protocol is coordinated at the [[Research Pre GSM Modem Protocol]] page.
 It is not yet clear whether raw unaided GPS service is at all possible on the Pre hardware, with information such as the number and identitifiers of satellites currently in view, signal strength, and other information provided by traditional GPS chips.

@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 Internet has some misleading information out there because the initial tear-downs didn't spot a separate GPS chip, so reviewers thought the Palm Pre didn't have a GPS and thus must rely on cell phone tower location like so : ''The Pre does use the assisted GPS capabilities of the Qualcomm baseband. That means the phone will not be able to get a location fix when it is not connected to the cellular network.''
-This isn't entirely accurate - the Palm Pre '''does indeed have integrated GPS '''hardware, it's part of the RF reciever chip, and it uses this hardware GPS if it's turned on (enabled.)
+This isn't entirely accurate - the Palm Pre '''does indeed have integrated GPS''' hardware, it's part of the RF reciever chip, and it uses this hardware GPS if it's turned on (enabled.)
 ==Location of Chip==

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:18, 10 November 2009
Line 95:		Line 95:
	====Potential Costs====		====Potential Costs====
	The Palm Pre driver uses services such a RX Network "GPS on extra" to improve the accuracy, meaning that it downloads files over the GPRS connection if available. Depending on your service providers's charging plan this may mean additional costs on your bill when Location services is enabled. It is not yet known how much data needs to be downloaded or how often.		The Palm Pre driver uses services such a RX Network "GPS on extra" to improve the accuracy, meaning that it downloads files over the GPRS connection if available. Depending on your service providers's charging plan this may mean additional costs on your bill when Location services is enabled. It is not yet known how much data needs to be downloaded or how often.
		+
		+	==Low-level Access==
		+	The GPS chip is part of the baseband GSM module and it seems it can not or is not enabled until the modem is registered to a network. Therefore the communication with the GPS chip goes over the same port and uses the same protocol as GSM, the messages relating to both services are interleaving in the communication stream. The attempt to document this protocol is coordinated at the [[Research Pre GSM Modem Protocol]] page.
		+
		+	It is not yet clear whether raw unaided GPS service is at all possible on the Pre hardware, with information such as the number and identitifiers of satellites currently in view, signal strength, and other information provided by traditional GPS chips.

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:09, 10 November 2009
Line 92:		Line 92:
	''This page contributed by FreeTim''		''This page contributed by FreeTim''
	Last update : [[User:FreeTim\|FreeTim]] 22:31, 6 October 2009 (UTC)		Last update : [[User:FreeTim\|FreeTim]] 22:31, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
		+
		+	====Potential Costs====
		+	The Palm Pre driver uses services such a RX Network "GPS on extra" to improve the accuracy, meaning that it downloads files over the GPRS connection if available. Depending on your service providers's charging plan this may mean additional costs on your bill when Location services is enabled. It is not yet known how much data needs to be downloaded or how often.

@@ Line 27: / Line 27: @@
 Phone wreck shows the RFR6500 too, in the teardown.
-I discovered that this chip, RFR6500 by Qualcomm, supports both GPS receiving and the voice part which is CDMA2000.
+This Qualcomm RFR6500 supports both GPS receiving and receiving of the voice part of cellular.  This GPS chip will also likely need some digital controller - therefore my conclusion that the Palm Pre's GPS receiver is inside the second Radio Frequency support chip the Qualcomm RFR6500 receiver is the one, and it's likely the processing and control for that GPS may be part of the Baseband processor (Qualcomm MSM6801A.)
 There is an [http://www.semiconductor.com/resources/reports_database/view_report.asp?pid=4176 engineering report here.]
@@ Line 37: / Line 36: @@
 *Rapid Repair shows the [http://www.rapidrepair.com/guides/Palm-Pre/palm-pre-dissasembly-repair-guide.html comm board here.] (photo.)
 ==References==

@@ Line 59: / Line 59: @@
 ===Southern Hemisphere===
-Apparently the software on the Pre currently isn't doing Southern Hemisphere correctly, this is unconfirmed.
+Apparently the software on the Pre may not be converting lon/lat [http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/webos-internals/palm-pre-gps-error.html for the Southern Hemisphere correctly.] If patch becomes available, I'll update here.
@@ Line 74: / Line 74: @@
 * Procedure:
 ** Started battery meter.
-** Battery level began at 20% discharged to 13%. Then recharged it to 20% again, and discharged again... once for each state.
+** Battery level began at 20% discharged to 13%. Then recharged it to 20% again, and enabled GPS discharged again... once for each state.
 ** Meanwhile just let the Pre sit there.
-*AFter 2-hours in the first state, I Went to Location services, Enabled GPS for the second test.
+*After 2-hours in the first state, from Location services we enabled GPS for the second test.
 ====Results below====
+ Battery Drain Two-hour test results:
   * GPS OFF = discharge rate 3.18 % per hour
-  * GPS ON  = discharge rate 4.44 % per hour
+  * GPS ON  = discharge rate 3.89 % per hour
+  .
+  .
   The above are my results, you can evaluate the results yourself - battery meter is freeware homebrew.
-* Note: I am repeating these results tomorrow just to verify the two hours is consistant across both tests.
+Comment: This was not moving, But, when walking /riding does it use up any more current? Assuming then it might be constantly losing / aquiring satellite signal? Further tests will be needed to determine if this is true.
 ''This page contributed by FreeTim''

@@ Line 7: / Line 7: @@
 ====Description====
-The Palm Pre has a built-in hardware GPS for location services.
+The Palm Pre has a built-in hardware GPS, it's integrated in the radio receiver chip.
-Google shows some misleading information out there, because the initial tear-downs didn't spot a separate GPS chip it was earlier thought the Palm Pre didn't have a GPS and thus must rely on cell phone tower location.  I found misleading detail on several reviews:
+Internet has some misleading information out there because the initial tear-downs didn't spot a separate GPS chip, so reviewers thought the Palm Pre didn't have a GPS and thus must rely on cell phone tower location like so : ''The Pre does use the assisted GPS capabilities of the Qualcomm baseband. That means the phone will not be able to get a location fix when it is not connected to the cellular network.''
-''The Pre does use the assisted GPS capabilities of the Qualcomm baseband. That means the phone will not be able to get a location fix when it is not connected to the cellular network.''
+This isn't entirely accurate - the Palm Pre '''does indeed have integrated GPS '''hardware, it's part of the RF reciever chip, and it uses this hardware GPS if it's turned on (enabled.)
+*If the GPS is on, '''GPS hardware''' will be used with location determined by satellite.
 *If the GPS is turned off in Location Services, the Palm Pre will fallback on cell tower location.
@@ Line 22: / Line 19: @@
-===Location of Chip===
+==Location of Chip==
-The GPS hardware is physically located on the Comm board, right hand side, as part of the [http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTexas_Instruments_OMAP&ei=00LLSq6IE8iwtgf74KXrAQ&rct=j&q=arm+texas+instruments+omap+3+chipset+palm+pre&usg=AFQjCNEmNf0DMuYepJcYOS4WiM4dr77fYw&sig2=Drg2ly2tTdnTihaq_XFYrw OMAP3 chipset (PDF file),]
+The GPS hardware is physically located on the Comm board, right hand side, as part of the RF (radio frequency) receiver chip RFR6500 that is part of the  [http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTexas_Instruments_OMAP&ei=00LLSq6IE8iwtgf74KXrAQ&rct=j&q=arm+texas+instruments+omap+3+chipset+palm+pre&usg=AFQjCNEmNf0DMuYepJcYOS4WiM4dr77fYw&sig2=Drg2ly2tTdnTihaq_XFYrw OMAP3 chipset (PDF file),]
 According to [http://www.pcb007.com/pages/zone.cgi?artcatid=&a=50798&artid=50798&pg=2 magazine PCB007], the Pre's main comm chipsets include the RFR6500 receiver and RFT6150 transmitter.  Is it possible, the GPS isn't part of the MSM6801 but rather it's part of the Qualcomm RFR6500 Receiver, also on the Palm Pre?
@@ Line 36: / Line 33: @@
 (above, engineering report article)
-Where you'll find that Qualcomm’s RFR6500 is a receiver that can support GPS and CDMA2000 voice.
+Where you'll find that Qualcomm’s RFR6500 is a receiver that can support '''both GPS and '''CDMA2000 cell voice reception.
@@ Line 43: / Line 40: @@
-===References===
+==References==
 *Palm announced at CES the Pre uses the TI OMAP 3430 as an applications processor.
@@ Line 51: / Line 48: @@
 *Here is Phonewreck's [http://www.phonewreck.com/2009/06/07/palm-pre-teardown-and-analysis-review-coming-soon/#more-320 parts analysis.]
-===Known Issues===
+==Mojo==
-Apparently the software on the Pre currently isn't doing Southern Hemisphere correctly.
+''This page contributed by FreeTim''

@@ Line 2: / Line 2: @@
 The GPS hardware page.
 Software found elsewhere (location services - see SDK.)
@@ Line 20: / Line 18: @@
 *If the GPS is on, '''GPS hardware''' will be used.
 *If the GPS is turned off in Location Services, the Palm Pre will fallback on cell tower location.
@@ Line 25: / Line 24: @@
 ===Location of Chip===
-The GPS hardware is physically located on the Comm board as part of the [http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTexas_Instruments_OMAP&ei=00LLSq6IE8iwtgf74KXrAQ&rct=j&q=arm+texas+instruments+omap+3+chipset+palm+pre&usg=AFQjCNEmNf0DMuYepJcYOS4WiM4dr77fYw&sig2=Drg2ly2tTdnTihaq_XFYrw OMAP3 chipset (PDF file),]
+The GPS hardware is physically located on the Comm board, right hand side, as part of the [http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTexas_Instruments_OMAP&ei=00LLSq6IE8iwtgf74KXrAQ&rct=j&q=arm+texas+instruments+omap+3+chipset+palm+pre&usg=AFQjCNEmNf0DMuYepJcYOS4WiM4dr77fYw&sig2=Drg2ly2tTdnTihaq_XFYrw OMAP3 chipset (PDF file),]
-Phone wreck shows this chip here:
+According to [http://www.pcb007.com/pages/zone.cgi?artcatid=&a=50798&artid=50798&pg=2 magazine PCB007], the Pre's main comm chipsets include the RFR6500 receiver and RFT6150 transmitter.  Is it possible, the GPS isn't part of the MSM6801 but rather it's part of the Qualcomm RFR6500 Receiver, also on the Palm Pre?
-http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.semiconductor.com%2Fresources%2Freports_database%2Fview_report.asp%3Fpid%3D4176&ei=E3zLStySJdPIlAe0y7nJBQ&rct=j&q=RFR6500+receiver&usg=AFQjCNGuPwi2Noa4YS47-PADdCTzT9bRtw&sig2=LQmfMvTItQCSq7shnuxHCg
+Phone wreck shows the RFR6500 too, in the teardown.
-I discovered that the RFR6500 supports both GPS receiving and CDMA2000.
+I discovered that this chip, RFR6500 by Qualcomm, supports both GPS receiving and the voice part which is CDMA2000.
 Therefore my conclusion that the Palm Pre's GPS is inside one of the two Radio Frequency support chips, the RFR6500 receiver.
-There is an engineering report here:
+There is an [http://www.semiconductor.com/resources/reports_database/view_report.asp?pid=4176 engineering report here.]
 (above, engineering report article)
@@ Line 53: / Line 39: @@
-*Rapid Repair shows the [http://www.rapidrepair.com/guides/Palm-Pre/palm-pre-dissasembly-repair-guide.html comm board in Step6 here.] (photo.)
+*Rapid Repair shows the [http://www.rapidrepair.com/guides/Palm-Pre/palm-pre-dissasembly-repair-guide.html comm board here.] (photo.)
-*Chip may possibly be Murata - researching this.
@@ Line 63: / Line 49: @@
 *Here is the [http://focus.ti.com.cn/cn/lit/ml/swpt019a/swpt019a.pdf mainARM chipset detail] from TI - PDF file.
 *Ifixit [http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=7&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palminfocenter.com%2Fnews%2F9825%2Fifixit-tears-down-the-pre-and-touchstone%2F&ei=9j_LSqndCKCNtgeNluTbAQ&rct=j&q=palm+pre+tear+location&usg=AFQjCNFT0jONhOxxF6GRXLHwmxUSY7pMlQ&sig2=krl4zHjeDeeo8GhkiQckEg tears down the Palm Pre.]
-*Here is Phonewreck's [http://www.phonewreck.com/2009/06/07/palm-pre-teardown-and-analysis-review-coming-soon/#more-320 parts analysis.] Maybe it really is Marvell?
+*Here is Phonewreck's [http://www.phonewreck.com/2009/06/07/palm-pre-teardown-and-analysis-review-coming-soon/#more-320 parts analysis.]
-TODO:
+There are Mojo methods detailed in the SDK under Location Services (and so, no need to also detail them here.)
-Clean up formatting.
+===Known Issues===
-There are Mojo methods detailed in the SDK under Location Services (and so, no need to also detail them here.)
+Apparently the software on the Pre currently isn't doing Southern Hemisphere correctly.